Posted by
voice_of_reason on Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:10:20 PM
Note: TH blogs are rife with verbal jousting between people from all four quadrants of the Secular/Religious, Liberal/Conservative divide. Upon closer inspection, it appears as though some adversaries actually share similar values - although those values may be derived from different sources.
For the sake of clarity, let's start with some definitions:
Values: that which an individual seeks to obtain or retain; e.g. most Americans would agree that Education is a Value.
Virtues: actions taken to obtain or retain values; most Americans would agree that working hard and staying in school are virtuous actions taken to obtain a good Education.
Joy: achieved when one succeeds in obtaining or retaining one's values; what a person feels when they graduate from school or college with a good Education!
The above definitions apply to atheists and religious people as well.
It is true that differences can exist in the values that different people hold - but more often, rational people share similar values, although the source of those values may be different.
For example, many secular people and most religious people believe in the value of marriage, particularly when children are involved. In the case of religious people, the source of that value may be a religious covenant. Secular couples on the other hand, may arrive at the same value without the religious significance of marriage.
But when debating which one 'wins' - it really matters what values are being considered on both sides. Also, the actions that different people suggest to attain the same values may differ.
So, it is possible for an atheist and a religious person to have the same values. Of course, there could also be complete disagreement in the value system of two religious people, or two atheists.
Examples of complete disagreement despite seeming similarities:
* an anarchist-type atheist, who thinks that it is OK to rob or kill vs. an atheist who believes in hard work, consistency and disciplined self-interest.
* a religious bomber (whether Mohammed Atta or McVeigh) vs. a religious person who believes in a strong work ethic, family etc.
A few moments of introspection usually help crystallize a person's world-view along the value-axis. Then, without debating the different sources of those values, we can focus on the values themselves. It may surprise us to find that there may be more similarities than differences within the American public despite the labeling that politicians use to divide us!
But, we should also consider that a suicide bomber feels a perverse kind of 'joy' just before he blows himself up. After all, he has just attained his 'value' which just happened to be the destruction of innocent lives. In his loony-tunes world, his action is 'virtuous', truly deserving of multiple virginal defloration rewards in his benighted paradise.
For the record, my sympathies are with the poor virgins!
So, it comes down to this: happiness depends on your value system. So, the 'pursuit of happiness' (per se) cannot be defined as a universal 'virtue', although it has come to be known as the foundation of a free society.
Values, on the other hand, make all the difference.