Posted by
voice_of_reason on Saturday, November 03, 2007 11:57:22 AM
Is Christianity The Problem? Hitchens vs. D'Souza
The above debate took place on October 22, 2007. It was hosted by The New York Society for Ethical Culture, and sponsored by several organizations including: The King’s College, The Intercollegiate Studies Institute, and tothesource.org.
The debate may be viewed via Youtube, thanks to 'aLifelessMagical'; each of the following segments is approximately 9:30 minutes long. The format of the debate is as follows: ten minutes for each speaker, followed by five minutes of rebuttal per speaker, then questions back-and-forth between the speakers. The debate concluded with questions from the audience, with the first three questions reserved for students of King’s College.
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Part 10 of 10Selected excerpts, edited for clarity:
DD: Atheism has become a militant phenomenon. If you are an unbeliever, why be militant? I don't believe in unicorns, but I haven't written any books on the subject.
DD: Western values came into the world because of Christianity. Concepts such as freedom and democracy derive from the belief that all men are equal in the eyes of God.
DD: Scientists from Kepler to Newton were Christians. Some (e.g. Mendel) were priests and monks!
DD: Modern science is based on three Christian assumptions that are, at root, metaphysical.
1. That the universe as a whole is rational
2. That the universe obeys laws that are comprehensible in the language of mathematics.
3. That the laws of nature our understandable within our own minds (evidence of God).
DD: religion hasn’t killed nearly as many people as atheism. Even during the Spanish Inquisition, which lasted 300 years, only 2,000 people were killed. In comparison, 20th century atheist regimes (including Hitler, the Soviets, Pol Pot), resulted in over a 100 million casualties.
CH: Christianity is a loose plagiarism of Judaism.
CH: The three major monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity & Islam) are based on faith that a man-made religion can be the key to salvation in this life and beyond. Although some 'social amelioration' can be attributed to the liberal stances taken by some adherents of Christianity, there is a higher standard of proof that is required before one can say that Christianity is the source of virtue.
CH: another assumption that is made by believers is that faith is itself a virtue, transcending reason and dispensing with the need for evidence
CH: human morality/ethics come from human solidarity that pre-dates all forms of monotheism. If not, are we to assume that our ancestors believed that perjury, murder and theft were OK, only to find out after the 'encounter in Sinai' that they weren't.
CH: Christianity is masochistic as well as partly sadistic. It assumes that we wouldn't know a right action or be able to have a right thought without the permission of a Celestial dictatorship that guards us while we sleep, that can convict us of thought crimes, that supervises our every waking moment and that is the origin of totalitarianism in the obeisance that it demands of us and continues to persecute and supervise us after death.
CH: How horrible would it be if we were forced to live in a posture of permanent gratitude to an unalterable 'benign' dictatorship in whose installation we had had no say
CH: The story of Christianity is untrue, and made up by fallible and opportunistic human beings.
CH: The premise of Christianity is not only untrue, it is also immoral because:
* It offers 'vicarious redemption' - by applauding a particularly revolting human sacrifice that took place before you were born, it condemns you to punishment if you don't accept it. Or, if you accept it you are offered the chance that your own sins can be forgiven.
* It requires compulsory love and compulsory fear - simultaneously. If those conditions are met, it is not that you get a 2nd chance - or that your debts can be paid, but you receive an absolution of your sins. The desire to be washed free of sins (responsibilities) itself is immoral and should be rejected
CH: laws of nature can be suspended in your favor if you make the right propitiation. Einstein said that the laws of nature are not ever suspended. Christianity says that they CAN be suspended. A virgin can conceive, leprosy can be cured, the blind can see. It is immoral to lie to children.
CH's moral challenge to those in the audience who believe that morality comes from the supernatural: “Name a moral action or ethical statement made by a believer that could not also be done or held by an unbeliever.” However, if asked to 'name a wicked action or vile statement attributable ONLY to their religious faith' believers in the audience would find it very easy.
CH: the human species has existed for at least 100,000 years. Here is what you have to believe. Heaven watched that implacably for 98,000 years as humans lived and died in ignorance and then decided to intervene - in the form of a filthy human sacrifice in a remote part of the Palestine - the news of which hasn't penetrated to the rest of the world and will not be believed when it does!